Inside 1228, it appears that this same Clemence along with her partner Nicholas was in fact chose to receive infant custody off Joanna and you may Llywelyn's child Susanna (aged in the 14?). is apparently towards youngster is increased when you look at the a safe and you will safer ecosystem on opportunity for a far greater training. your situation had been getting remaining off their. Brand new custodial grant is of the King Henry III, half-sis to help you Joanna and half-uncle to Susanna, yet the decree entitled Susanna, Henry's ‘niece' and Joanna, Henry's ‘sister'.'
A concern now poses in itself. In the event the Joanna is actually the fresh new child from Clemence le Boteler, out of, apparently an enthusiastic English domestic, how can we establish what Joanna is undertaking within the France whenever King John sent to possess her in 1203? One to it is possible to response is you to Clemence's dad, Philip ce Boteler try French, instead of English. It actually was very common during the time for people to hang functions with the both parties of Station. This ed his dilies compared to English families during this time period.
The only guide where I've discovered a regard to Clemence Pinel – spouse regarding Henry Pinel (aside from Charles Cawley inside the Wikipedia) is during Alison Weir's ‘England's Regal Parents: The complete Family history (London, 1989).' It book is detailed by one to genealogist since ‘not very completely annotated.' My trawl from the genealogy and family history community forums receive light source on Pinel nearest and dearest, and additionally Clemence's spouse Henry Pinel. Numerous entries advise that Joanna was the newest child from Henry Pinel and his awesome partner Clemence, however, zero offer, capable of being appeared, are given. I am for this reason tempted to dismiss so it woman away from further data. I can be very wrong.
Number regarding Mortain, in the Normandy, know out https://brightwomen.net/no/kroatiske-kvinner/ of their own [and perhaps
Clemence de Fougers is actually the newest sis out-of Richard de- Hommet, Constable from Normandy, and you will Geoffrey de- Fougeres. Her father is William du Fougers. I have zero big date from delivery (otherwise dying) away from Clemence, but she was initially partnered ahead of 1200 (no go out available) so you're able to Alan de Dinan, and you can are well-known enough to marry in October 1200, once the their own 2nd partner, Ranulph de- Blundeville, Earl out of Chester and Vicomte d'Avranches, has just separated (matrimony annulled?) away from Constance out of Brittany.
In 1189, aged seventeen, Ranulph had been married to Constance of Brittany the widow of Henry 11 ‘s son Geoffrey, and the mother of Arthur of Brittany with whom King John contested the succession. Henry did not trust the Countess and wanted her married to a magnate he could trust. The marriage gave Ranulph control of the earldom of Richmond and the duchy of Brittany, but it was not a success (see subject 6. below). The couple had no issue and they separated. It was rumoured you to definitely Earl Ranulph divorced Constance in order to have got an affair that have King John!
Naturally, would it Clemence function as mother out of Joanna, she would also be the fresh grandmother out-of Susanna, although there is no reasoning to trust your young Joanna know, immediately, there is actually a household relationship, if
As Clemence de- Fougers is daughter and sis out of Constables out-of Normandy, It is envision possible that John, *knew* their particular, ahead of their unique relationships so you're able to Ranulph]. An almost link with John you are going to establish what might appear a highly advantageous 2nd wedding to have Clemence in order to Ranulph.
Ranulph, six th Earl of Chester yet not, are a strong baron also it beggars trust, at least for me, that he might have accepted a married relationship so you can a female just who got got a known affair and you can a following child because of the John, Matter out of Mortain some 10 years before. Such as for instance considering the rumours encompassing a potential fling anywhere between John and you can his first partner Constance!