The fresh new genealogists all think about it tall one Nicholas’ partner Clementia try incorporated here just like the, around regular facts, she’d not be mentioned. Whenever Susanna in the some later on day obtained out over a unique guardian, the fresh new spouse of these guardian wasn’t said.
This would signify Queen John spent a bit there and you will the possibility of an enthusiastic amorous liaison having Clementia is obtainable
Here are some let me reveal a principle cutting-edge by the certain eminent genealogists, however it is reasonable to declare that new results is actually hotly competitive!
This idea causes an excellent and you will interested ‘twist’ regarding story away from Joanna, that may interest fans of HBD!
At first glance, there would be absolutely nothing to suggest one connection between your hostage, Susanna off Wales and Clementia, wife out-of Nicholas de- Verdun. Although not, the feel of some genealogists that have foreign hostages, for example youths, might have been which they were commonly place that have family relations, or no was available.
Jumping toward 1236, discover an entry on Tewkesbury annals which pertains to Joanna’s mommy because the “King Clemencie!” It checks out to some extent:
Today, we know the mommy out of Joanna are entitled Clementia (Clemence?
In this case the new monk try plainly indulging for the gothic legalism. Ahead of her dying, Joanna had been legitimised by the Pope. Based on that legitimisation, the fresh Tewksbury monk obviously took it on themselves to elevate Joanna’s mother into the status of King, as if their own mother was actually Queen John’s spouse! It is a fact not, that Queen John and you will Clementia was never ever hitched. From the writing about Joanna’s mommy since “Queen” Clementia, the latest monk which recorded Joanna’s passing try appearing their extreme regard to possess Joanna, however trying to replace the correct things.
As for the name off Clementia de- Verdun, Paget suggests that she is the fresh daughter off Roger de- Dauntsey, from Wiltshire. You to definitely genealogist considers they high that Clementia acclaimed off Wiltshire just like the he’s got pointed out that King John got a robust attachment so you’re able to you to definitely county, it as being the house of his safest allies, the newest Longespee, ilies and Geoffrey Fitz Peter.
Genealogists have discovered that the term ‘Clementia’ is actually really rare certainly English noblewomen of period. In a single table from ladies brands that was amassed, there have been just a few situations of your own term “Clementia” out-of all in all, 1407 ladies in new shot! The fact individuals named Clementia was of Susanna represents high.
So! Evidence try suggestive, yet not conclusive, one during the 1228, Susanna, because the good hostage, received out over brand new proper care of their particular maternal granny, now spouse out of Nicholas de Verdun!!
The brand new Scottish genealogists of your MacDuffs’ keep one to Susanna ferch Llywelyn was given birth to 1214 in Gwynnedd, Wales and you may died c. 1259 into the Dunfermline, Fife, Scotland. She married Malcolm MacDuff, Earl regarding Fife into the 1230 and had a few college students: Sir Colbran MacDuff, Earl regarding Fife, created 1245, passed away 1270 and you may MacDuff MacDuff created 1247.
Without a doubt, you will find prevent objections to all the this supposition! King John had many mistresses and possibly as much as seven illegitimate college students. The caretaker out-of Joanna might have been born circa 1172 and marriageable circa 1184. Joanna by herself was created https://brightwomen.net/fi/eharmony-arvostelu/ circa 1191 (14 yrs old at the time of their unique matrimony to Llywelyn). Rohese, the latest recognized legitimate daughter from Nicholas de- Verdun and his awesome wife Clementia came into this world circa 1210-1213. If the Clementia are mom off Joanna, she’d can be found in their particular later 30’s, early 40’s when having a baby so you’re able to Rohese! Perhaps not hopeless, particular say, however, not very likely.